Horses are among the most majestic of creatures.

While their immense strength and power have long been exploited throughout Australia’s history, particularly within the racing industry, which carries many negative associations, Professor Juli Coffin has found perhaps the most meaningful use for them: as a therapeutic tool. Through life-changing bonds with wild horses, she helps Indigenous young people navigate their path towards adulthood.

Juli’s commendable and inspiring story is celebrated in Sean O’Reilly’s Guided by Horses, which is set to screen at the upcoming Melbourne International Film Festival and CinefestOZ. 

Set in Australia’s outback, where youth suicide rates are among the highest in the world, Guided by Horses explores Juli’s inspirations, as well as the Indigenous teenagers and wild horses whose lives intersect in this timely reminder of where healing can begin in a divided world.

Sean O’Reilly is an Australian documentary director and producer making his feature debut with Guided by Horses.

Developed over three years, the film reflects his passion for stories of transformation, belonging, and the resilience of the human spirit.

Professor Juli Coffin is a proud Aboriginal woman with family ties to Nyangumarta Country in the Pilbara and the creator of Yawardani Jan-ga, a world-first Aboriginal-led Equine Assisted Learning program in the Kimberley. 

A leading researcher and advocate for Aboriginal young people, her innovative work has supported more than 2,000 participants, demonstrating the life-changing power of horses, Country, culture, and community.

If you’re looking for a documentary that is uplifting and heartwarming without exploiting its subjects’ past traumas for the sake of entertainment, add Guided by Horses to your must-see list.

“Within aboriginal science, one of the things that we are trying to do is really strengthen what we already do with some more evidence-based outcomes, which we’re working on now.“

Interview by Matthew Eeles

Sean, had you travelled to Western Australia prior to making Guided by Horses?

Sean O’Reilly I grew up on the other side of the country in Sydney, but I’ve really come to love Western Australia and in particular, Broome. When my girlfriend and I [Guided by Horses co-producer and cinematographer Sophy Crane] initially travelled to Broome, we just fell in love with the place, and despite damaging two rental cars along the way and filming for so many weeks for this project, we had such an amazing time and it’s always a joy to go back. 

Juli, how did you and Sean first meet? 

Juli Coffin We met when I was in Sydney doing some other work and we started talking about the possibility of this as a film. I told Sean that we had made a shorter documentary, but I wasn’t particularly enthused about the outcome of that documentary. It was a little half-hour doco, and it was done in more of a photojournalism style. I just felt like it really missed the essence of the program. Sean had some really good ideas and then it developed from there with Sean and Sophy coming over to Broome. We obviously had lots and lots of meetings to get to know each other, and for them to get to know the program and after that they came to Broome for some very intensive real-time filming. 

What was it about Sean’s ideas that made him the right person to tell this story? 

Juli There were a couple of things that stood out straight away. One was that Sean, being a younger person, has a lot of new and fresh ways of looking at things, and he was very accepting of some of the cultural norms and other things that we really wanted to keep true to the work we are doing and the program itself. He’s a very good listener and very good to have a discussion with around certain aspects of the work. He was easy to work with, and he had a clear idea about the storyline he wanted to follow. He came in with some learnings from lots of other films and his own experience around what works in films and what doesn’t. So it was really good to hear that because obviously I’m not a filmmaker. I run a program and I don’t look at the program in terms of how it’s portrayed in a film. It was really interesting to get my head around the film side of things. Some things that I really wanted for this film was to take this program into the public space, to decide which parts get highlighted in the film, and which parts of this program are quieter. It was really important to get that balance right. And I think part of Sean’s appeal early on was his ability to reflect that back in the right way and be very adaptable, which we have to be in this space. 

Sean, why were you so interested in telling this story? 

Sean Before we had met Juli, Sophy and I were very eager to make a feature-length documentary, and we knew we wanted to tell that story in Australia. Sophy works a lot in natural history and wildlife filmmaking, and I also have an interest in emotive and cinematic stories and recognise that a lot of great Australian films that I love are set in stunning locations of Australia, particularly in the Outback. When we thought about the ingredients of a film which could incorporate wildlife, some natural history and human connection, movies like My Octopus Teacher came to mind. We observed this trend of human and animal relationship stories in the zeitgeist. We knew that within these parameters we’d like to tell a similar story. Through some Googling we found Juli’s program and we listened to an episode of the Emerging Minds podcast with Juli. The minute we heard Juli talking, we thought, “Wow, this is really something special”. Juli had some amazing stories about young people who were benefitting from these experiences with horses in the Kimberley. While we were listening to Juli speak, we started to see some of the stories we wanted to tell take shape. The minute we finished listening to it, we emailed Juli and set up a meeting. Thank God Juli agreed with our vision. [Laughs]. Fast forward three years on and we’ve become friends and we’ve spent so much time collaborating on this project that it’s hard to think about what life would be like without this project. I will also say that since that first conversation with Juli, this project has basically become a collaboration because without Juli’s knowledge of the space, none of this could have worked. We wanted to shape this film around Juli’s vision and what Juli wanted to communicate. Juli’s been involved editorially in a really big way, including providing feedback on the edits and cuts of the film.

Sean, describe your personal relationship with horses.  

Sean I would describe my relationship with horses as mostly intellectual, as in I’ve read a lot of books about horses, and I’ve listened to podcasts and watched movies and I’ve spent a lot of time in proximity with horses. I definitely don’t ride horses or groom horses, but I’m definitely more of a thinker when it comes to how horses work. I became really invested in studying the relationships with humans and horses, and how over time these relationships have changed. So that’s how I’d describe my perspective of horses. But I’ll tell you, you probably remember some of the scenes in the film out on the salt planes around Broome? We did spend a lot of time just waiting and camping out to spend time with wild herds of horses. Looking back on that now, that was pretty special. While we were filming, there was a lot of pressure on us wondering if they’d show up, but we learnt that they present themselves when you least expect it, and that’s when we got the best material when we least expected it, and that was really amazing. Also looking back, regardless of hearing some stories from people being nervous around wild horses and how unpredictable they could be, I became pretty brazen with my engagement with them. I’d even go right up to them and film them handheld and walk around with them. Looking back, that was a positive memory and experience for me. But Juli is definitely the horse-obsessed one in this collaboration. [Laughs]. 

Juli, how about yourself? 

Well, I don’t know about being horse-obsessed. [Laughs]. I feel like horses are just part of my life and they always have been. I can’t remember them not being in my life. I’ve learned a lot culturally from some of my uncles, who were Aboriginal stockmen many years ago, right up to people like my Nanna, around connection and lessons about coming into a horse’s space. Horses were in my life at times when humans weren’t, so I have a lot of respect for horses and I know that my life would be very different without horses. The initial reason for my work with horses, and eventually the film, was just how much it did for me and how much I just want to do that for someone else. 

Considering horses are not a native species to Australia having first arrived here in 1788, is there a cultural significance between horses and indigenous people? They were used by indigenous stockmen and for other purposes, but I’m wondering if there’s a deeper connection.  

Juli That’s a great question. It’s very interesting because I’ve travelled to other places where horses are very significant to indigenous cultures such as in Lakota and other indigenous groups through Canada and America, for example. But here, horses came with the colonisers, and growing up, I remember my grandmother saying to me that horses are very important. They’re part of our life and we know that because horses have a language word. So in Nyangumarta, in our Pilbara language, and also in Yawarda here where I live now, the word for horse is yawarta. So there are many Western things that don’t have a language word, such as motor car, which is just motor car. It’s got Aboriginal English attached to it, but it’s not got a language word to describe it. So as soon as horses were around, they were a significant other and they got a name which they’ve had for a very long time. So culturally they became significant. Many of our elders and people long before us today were very connected to horses and particularly in the Pilbara and Kimberley where a lot of our Aboriginal people involved in the pastoral industry were considered the very best horse people in the world. So there was a great significance in the natural way that us as Aboriginal people form connection and place flora and fauna into our being and existence as opposed to perhaps a more Western methodology where the horse was often dominated. But obviously in those days, many years ago, horses were work animals, whereas now we’ve been able to have that time to really tune into what horses can offer us. And one of those key pieces is that relationship and that modelling of relationship. It’s not a particularly new field or anything, but I think the way that horses are so multifunctional and have a multi-level existence in our world is really significant. They are the most amazing sentinel beings. But it’s about the way that we engage. I think what was really lovely all those years ago was that Aboriginal people recognised that relationship and were very sought after because they could form those bonds with horses. They were much more attuned to that way of being at that time. And I feel like now when we have young people and horses in the same space, it’s such a natural fit. 

Juli, I don’t want to go too deep into how you started out in this field because you do go into it in the documentary. But I want to go back even further than that. You were the first Aboriginal water polo player to represent Australia. Are there any similarities between what you’re doing now and being a part of a well oiled and elite sports team? Did that experience help in terms of working so closely with people? 

Juli I think sport taught me discipline. It probably also gave me something to do because I had a very busy mind and body as a child. I was put into sport and one of the things I loved was swimming and water polo. It was like netball, soccer and  swimming all at once. I loved that it’s a very physical game, and the physicality of it is something that you take into being around horses because it’s your whole being. But I think one of the elements that I carry across probably just about everything I do is the commitment and the authenticity and the way that I show up, it’s always consistent and that would be the qualities of a good sports person as it would be the qualities of somebody working with horses and young people, that the consistency is really key. And I learnt that from not just sport, but from being around horses too because both things carry through into other parts of my life as well. 

Considering this program is an alternative to medicinal treatment, have you ever experienced any criticism towards this form of therapy from the medical industry? 

Juli I wouldn’t describe this work as an alternative. I would say it sits alongside any other types of therapeutic interventions. It’s very much a complementary space, but it depends when you come into it, because if you think about the work, it sits in prevention, intervention, and treatment. So if you were coming in and you were somebody who already had a history of being medicated for certain aspects of life, then your medication could potentially be reduced, maybe. But it would really depend on what stage you come into the space of the program and the horses. So I don’t know if the word alternative is quite right, but it’s very much complimentary. And again, depending on when you start the program, you may never end up on medication at all. So there’s those thoughts around the preventative and the reductive space. Equine work can serve you in different ways in different aspects of life. It’s definitely not a magic bullet. It’s very much a space where you can come in at any point in your life and there’s no judgment. Every journey is an individual one, which is very different to a medicinal approach, I guess.

Sean Juli, are there people who reject that horses could possibly help with what you’re doing? 

Juli Yeah, I’ve had some interesting discussions with people, but I’ve also presented at an international ADHD conference, which was really interesting. I spoke about the neural pathways and science backs up a lot of our work, but it has only been done in discrete populations so they can’t say that our research is really robust, but now we actually can because we have five years worth of data. We’ve tracked young people that come into the space with ADHD, autism and other aspects going on in life and we see first-hand what effect the program has. What we also have is information around the dose rate. So in a mainstream context, the discussion years ago was that you need at least 10 sessions to sustain change. Whereas our starting point in an indigenous context was that we need probably a minimum of 20 sessions because the aspects that are going on are much more complex. So we’ve been able to prove that information around the dose rate. But there’s always going to be a robust discussion around not just medication, but also around the outcomes of this project. Within aboriginal science, one of the things that we are trying to do is really strengthen what we already do with some more evidence-based outcomes, which we’re working on now. So we’ve already proven it, but we’re going to make it even tighter. This program very quickly moved out of the warm fuzzy space into the scientifically validated evidence-based space that we know it as today. 

From your observations, what’s the biggest change you notice in people when they’re in the presence of horses? I know that some people are genuinely terrified around them.

Sean: When we were editing the footage, which was a very long process for us, that’s when I observed this the most. While we were filming, I was busy observing Juli or one of the trainers running a session with a young person, and that’s when Sophy was more of a fly on the wall, watching everything that was happening. I got to do my observing in the edit. What I observed was that sometimes small symptoms or very subtle changes in someone’s body language can actually be very significant in the bigger picture of that person’s day, week, or year. It’s easy to tell when someone feels calm or right at home. I think what was really amazing with Athena is that she was in control of what was happening with these animals, and that was quite striking because, in other parts of her life, it may not have felt like that.

Juli: I have thousands of stories of change. It’s hard to pinpoint just one, but I have seen what can only be described as phenomenal change. I’ve seen kids come in who are non-verbal. I’ve seen kids start by making horse noises before moving into being able to verbalise, no longer needing a teacher’s aide, and eventually returning to mainstream school. I have witnessed horses totally surrendering to young people when they need it most. What I always observe is the interaction between the horse and the young person. The horse tells me what’s going on with the young person. We don’t ask for that to be verbalised because that can be really hard sometimes. So I’m acutely watching the horse. I’m observing the young person. I’m seeing changes in not just the young person but also the horse. I’m looking at how the horse mirrors what’s really going on for that young person. For example, we had one young girl come in who had tried to take her own life a couple of times, and I’d spoken with her mother. There were really deep concerns for this young person. One morning, the horse lay down for that young girl, virtually in her lap. This horse had never done this for any other young person before or since. How do you put that on paper? I don’t know. That’s why it’s always a visual story for me. It’s a story of feeling. It’s a space that starts with feeling. We don’t always have to explain it, but what we know is that the young person was being offered something. The horse offered no judgement. Surrender. I’m here. I’ve got you. I’m at rest, so I’m inviting you to be at rest. It’s another world, really. So what I observe, I can’t really put into a couple of sentences, to be honest. But I can tell you that what I observe is phenomenal, and I see it on a daily basis.

Sean, considering this is your first feature documentary, how did you find navigating the psychology of this subject versus shoving a camera in someone’s face and calling action?

Sean: I’d say the number one element that has allowed us to get here is really listening because this subject is so nuanced that it requires careful listening and observation to really understand what’s taking place. With documentaries, you can often shoot drama and the narrative unfolds right before the camera, but in this film’s case, it’s a very delicate and sensitive subject that didn’t unfold in that same way. I’d say the greatest tool we had was listening to Juli’s methodology for this program. I don’t know if it’s worth going into, but I started to see these horses as a reconnecting pathway to a more natural place. And this isn’t just for the young people in the program; it’s for anyone. We’re in a very busy, modern world and we often don’t get time to just be calm and be ourselves. But while we were filming, I was confronted with, and almost forced into, this place of calm with the horses. Otherwise, the horse would simply walk away from me. They weren’t interested in being around me if I was carrying energy that stressed them out. So I had to become aware of how I was carrying myself. I think it all comes down to listening and being present, which allows the greatest opportunity to connect with these animals.

Juli, how do you separate your own mental health vulnerabilities from your work? I’m trying to be sensitive here, but I imagine you’re often reminded of your own traumas while working so deeply within this specialised field.

Juli: Well, you have to be in a place where you can help others. You have to have worked through those things yourself. When I was training to become an equine psychotherapist, that’s when I was confronted with all of that because you can’t really support and help others if you haven’t at least found ways to deal with some of it within yourself. So I worked through a lot of my traumas before I went into this field. I’ve done a few other jobs in between too, so I have some capacity around that. But horses have always been there for me, which has helped a lot. Horses were a very big part of allowing me to move into this work and help others through it. You have to have some kind of resolution around your own life. No other job has been as fulfilling as this work, so I feel like it’s what I was always meant to be doing. If suddenly I’m not here tomorrow, then I know I’ve done everything I can to share the beautiful lessons that horses, Elders, and Country have all given me.

Other than the therapy itself and the horses, I guess the third most important aspect is the therapists themselves. What makes a great therapist in this field? Is it a predominantly male or female industry, or is it fairly balanced?

Juli: I always help practitioners as best I can to get the best training with the horses and to get the most they can out of the equine-assisted learning space. That’s often when people are confronted by some of their own trauma and limitations. So it’s a very open and nurturing way to provide training because the horses are there alongside me and the trainee practitioner. We want to attract young Aboriginal staff because they’re often the people who want to become equine practitioners. I’m like the nanna because I’m getting a bit long in the tooth now. [Laughs]. I want to have a good variety of younger Aboriginal people involved because often people receiving the therapy will say, “I can relate to that because that person knows what Minecraft is.” But it really does have to be the right person for the job. We have so much amazing support in the community up here because so many people value the program. It’s always evolving, and now we feel really well positioned in who we appoint. But it’s not for everybody. We probably have around a five per cent success rate with our training and employability. The other aspect you mentioned is whether it’s male or female dominated. Traditionally, the space has been very female-heavy. For us, in a cultural space, we need balance. We know that many young Aboriginal men are less likely to turn up at a health service than young women, but what’s been really interesting is the increasing acceptance of the program among young men, as well as the number of young and older men wanting to come in, work in the program, and undertake the training. Initially, I would say yes, it was very female-heavy, including the participants. But now it’s about a 60/40 split, with males making up the larger group. Staff-wise, we have a very equitable balance.

This isn’t a criticism at all, but the film avoids going too deeply into the past traumas of both the practitioners and the people receiving therapy. Was that intentional, and if so, why?

Sean: Well, this is a film about a great solution, and we also wanted to celebrate what Juli’s doing and celebrate the young people. It’s always been in the back of my mind, and Sophy’s mind, that we wanted to be able to watch this film with every single person involved and have them feel celebrated. That felt like a mandatory requirement for us. It felt like something we had to do to honour Juli’s work. It would have been easy to tell those deeper stories, and there were a lot of conversations about this, especially with some of our executive producers. But we wanted this story to be fun and entertaining, with the primary focus being the horses and the young people.

Juli: We have to be very delicate about stigmatising programs like this. That’s why we have such good attendance, support, and participation. This program isn’t just for naughty kids. It’s not just for kids who are really struggling. The program is for anyone who needs very specialised one-on-one work. We do pairs, we do groups, and we offer the program in other ways as well. There’s a big misconception that programs like this are only for people with severe mental health issues, but they’re not. It can be used for almost anything. And even the word mental isn’t one we like to use. We call it Yawardani Jan-ga, which means horses helping. We’re creating an opportunity for you to become the best version of yourself by learning different skills that may serve you better. If we had done a deep dive into each young person’s life throughout the film, it wouldn’t have respected their journey, and it could have stigmatised the program because we don’t want people thinking it’s only for young people with autism or an ADHD diagnosis. It’s a delicate balance, and the language around it is important. That’s why we’ve chosen to portray, support, and nurture the young people in the documentary.

I know this next question is far from home, but I’m curious to know your thoughts on the Wild Brumby cull happening in NSW at the moment. I don’t know if there are similar programs to yours in the Eastern States, but with 3000 horses set to be cull, couldn’t they be put to better use through programs like this?

Juli: Absolutely. We definitely play our part in supporting brumby rescues and foal rehabilitation in the Kimberley. Obviously, we know these culls are horrific, and they make us all very upset. The policies are bigger than us, but we certainly make a lot of noise about it here in the Kimberley as well. We had similar aerial culls a few years ago, and not only are they cruel, they’re such a waste of resources. I would love nothing more than the opportunity to save some of these wild herds with people who are equally invested in this space. But it takes money, time, and the right people. For us, feeding one horse costs around $150 per week. Unfortunately, we can’t take on a hundred horses, let alone 300. There are so many better ways to manage horses. I would really welcome the government looking at alternatives such as a sterilisation program or something else that can manage the brumby population because they are remarkably adaptable. There’s got to be something better than aerial culling. We’re individuals who are outraged in hundreds of pockets around Australia, but even collectively we’re still a very small sector of the community and a relatively small voice. The more awareness there is around what horses can offer us as humans, the more of these programs can be established. It all makes perfect sense, and it all adds up. It just needs to be coordinated much better so we can have more of these iconic beings in our lives. Otherwise, we’re going to miss out on an amazing resource.

Guided by Horses will screen at the Melbourne International Film Festival from Thursday, 20 August, and CinefestOZ from Saturday, 29 August.

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